UPDATE:
I recognize, am humbled by, and appreciate evidences of the Lord's patience in my own life and in the lives of those around me. He is faithful and continues to bring issues which need to be dealt with to the surface because He is good.
Why are these things lifted to the surface? So that they might be rooted out.
He is after repentance and the pursuing of righteousness.
Let us not take for granted our Lord.
________________________
Thank you for praying. It has been a difficult and interesting week. The Lord has brought confirmation and peace to my soul through the study of His Word, prayer, research, and wise counsel. Praise Him. Glory to Him.
I am currently staying put in the "classical cessationists" camp. I have been given the gift of discernment by the Lord and I trust the red flags (when tested in the above mentioned ways) He grants me. I am learning how to steward this gift in a God- honoring manner. I am aware of the temptations of it's downside/flesh/sinful aspects and I am pursuing righteousness. I am in prayer. I am thankful. I am humbled.
I have many cute siblings who are not pitching tent in this camp and I love them enormously.
Nov 17, 2008
Labels: A Day In The Life, Bible
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14 comments:
Wow....what do you think lead you down this road? Seeing mis-use? Feeling convicted? I've always been intrigued since i've never spoken in touges or anything.....
Missed you today! Hope it was a good day!
Bradley and I have had many a conversations on this very topic. We actually had one today.
Susan, there is one very specific partner that scripture tells us goes along with speaking in tongues: interpretation. Coming from a YWAM background, I have seen that used in so many wrong ways such as having a friend of mine question her salvation because she did not speak in tongue.
But I also know of miraculous stories in the field where a person did not speak the local language yet held a full conversation in that language. When witnesses asked him why he did not tell them he could speak the local language, he did not believe them until he saw the video that was filmed of the experience. In his mind he was speaking English, but his mouth was speaking another language. The Gospel was brought to this village as a result.
Mine gift is prophecy. I cannot turn it on or off. It always comes in a time of prayer for a person and is always in picture form. I always struggle with this. I do not want to say anything that does not come from the Lord. I can tell you many personal stories where I knew things about peoples lives whom I had met for the first time when I was praying for them.
So, now that you know this, don't turn when you see me coming. Like I said, it is only as the Lord reveals it to me for His purpose.
This is one case in which I'm glad it's you & not me. Just don't know what I'd do!
:-)
Angelia
Angelia-???
please expound
Hi, Cate!
Unfortunately, I'm nursing a horrible headache all night, but I'll give it a shot (answering your question in brevity).
Cessationists tend to believe that some gifts/manifestations ceased after the first century church. I suppose I don't agonize over the issue, because to me it isn't an question. If I were to say to Dawn, "Discernment ended with the first century church," that wouldn't mean a thing to her, because the Spirit in her gives her that gift and she walks in it.
The gifts, as I understand them, are meant for edification of the believer and/or the Church and for the exaltation and glorification of Christ. I see no difference between any of them, whether it be prophecy or whether it be acts of service. They aren't meant to draw attention to the person, but rather to exalt Christ.
Additionally, a person who is exercising the gifts of the Spirit will not contradict the truth found in Scripture. This is where we see a vast distinction between the counterfeit and what is real. Turn on your tv, and you can find those who claim to have some special "anointing," which, for a price, you may become a beneficiary (much like Simon the Sorcerer from Acts). As a sorcerer, he had boasted of his own greatness, and people had flocked to him as someone given divine power. When he saw the manifestations of the Spirit, he wanted to BUY them!
Yet the existence of evil does not nullify its counterpart. What one cannot say is that a person who manifests the gifts of the Spirit is acting unbiblically. They will have to look to further evidence. If Dawn says, "The Lord has given me discernment," yet continues to express a "truth" which contradicts Scripture, this is not the Spirit. Likewise the person who operates in any other gift.
In summary, the manifestation of a particular gift does not work to exalt the recipient of that gift nor does it contradict Scripture.
Classical cessationists do leave room for some exceptions--situations in which God will manifest one of the gifts perceived as being more supernatural. (I think they're all supernatural!) This strikes me as an attempt to explain away the "He doesn't move in this way today, but today he did" occasions. Why would we limit him, and according to what Scripture?
In Orlando there is a man who claims to be a prophet. People flock to him, hoping to be singled out, touched, healed, anointed, or at the very least, impressed by sensational experiences. He lives in a mansion, wears a Rolex, and if you can get past his bodyguards, you have accomplished more than most.
In New York, there is a man who is a prophet....a title he rejects. Few will flock to see him, as they will be promised no riches, no heavens on earth. He weeps when God supernaturally reveals things to him, like when he canceled every event on the church calendar in the weeks leading up to 9-11, because the Lord wanted the church to be fasting and praying for something they were about to face (and in preparation for those who would flock to them for ministry). He weeps for the lost, and he rebukes a culture which has attempted to transform God into Santa Claus, marketing Him in the same tone as Amway. His words are steeped in Scripture, not the proof-texted kind you find with the wolves, but the whole message. He displays the fruit of the Spirit and of truth. His passion is for Christ and the Church.
Like your friend, Kimberly, I and many others experience gifts of the Spirit. Perhaps not daily, or even weekly, but they happen in God's timing for God's purposes. We must always be responsible to test Scripturally to see that it is from the Lord. But to say that these weren't real would be to deny something God has done, and we wouldn't likely be willing to do that.
In Acts, Paul speaks of a "tongues" experience in which foreigners all heard their own languages and were amazed. In Corinthians he speaks of a different prayer language, one that edified not the church but the individual. He does not reject this particular gift, he clarified that it will not edify the church (only himself) unless someone interprets. If I engage in this (and I do), does this make me crazy or simply imaginative? What if I tell you I can pray one set of words with my mouth while praying other words with my mind simultaneously? I do...as did Paul by his own admission. What do you do with that? Nothing. Perhaps a witch doctor could do that! You must look to other fruit in my life to see if I am walking in the Spirit and in truth. If so, you might consider the passage about the tree and the fruit.
There are Christian leaders I love and respect on both sides of this fence. In all of them, I see fruit that testifies to the Gospel. I see humility and service to the Kingdom. Among them are, to name a few, John Piper, Mark Driscoll, C.J. Mahaney, Tim Keller, Mark Dever, and Al Mohler. It isn't a central issue, therefore it isn't worth division.
I don't think I accomplished brevity, but I hope I answered your request!
In re-reading my post, I want to clarify something I wrote. I do experience the "gifts of the Spirit," daily, but not the ones cessationists seem to question. Discernment, for example, is daily. Every day the Spirit is in me, training me, teaching me, and using me as He sees fit. Yet there are other times, when those gifts perceived as more "supernatural" are there...and yet they seem as natural to me as the others.
Final thought: When I used "if Dawn" as examples, I was being entirely hypothetical! No innuendos there!
The Scripture that comes to mind is 1 Corinthians 13:12, which reminds us for now we see as through a glass dimly, and that we know only in part. At the right time, we will see things clearly and distinctly and will also know. In this assurance, we can rest and enjoy unity of the Spirit and of the hope of the Gospel. :-)
Kimberly and Angelia,
You guys are two of the cute friends I was referring to
:) Love You Both
Dawn
You do realize that in this context, "cute" is not a compliment, right? It's like me saying, "I have a really blonde friend who is a cessationist."
:-)
but you are cute. in fact, adorable.
I think I need to follow the follow-up comments closer.
Angelia, I have to agree with you. I really don't dwell on this or struggle. The Lord can do with me as He pleases. If he wants me to speak in another language that I have never heard or studied before, He will open my mouth to speak whatever He wants me to.
I will say, I am so concerned that when situations come up where I believe He is revealing things to me about someone, and after I fight with Him about if this is truly from Him and not my imagination, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS tell the person to take what I said back to the Lord in Prayer.
It takes a lot for me to actually get up the nerve to speak, but I want to remind them that I am human. In most cases I feel heavy condemnation immediately after leaving the person. So much so that I seek out the person after wards just to speak to them.
There are mysteries of God that I will never know this side of heaven. I'm okay with that. When these moments happen, they strengthen my faith as much, if not more, than that of the person I have spoken to. They are my monuments of remembrance. Not idols, or events to worship, but to be able to look back and recall Gods' faithfulness to me and His children.
I hope this didn't sound like rambling.
I just wanted to clarify the part about the condemnation. I firmly believe that comes from our Enemy who is not happy with what I have done and tries to destroy me by condemning me. By me seeking out the person, I receive confirmation from the person that the things I called out were spot on. That it is I who stand there in awe and amazement because Tjhe words I spoke were not of my own knowledge or strength.
As far as "what camp I pitch my tent" in," I pitch my tent in the camp of the Lord Jesus Christ. All the rest is man-made.
Now if I could only remember that during the times when I believe who the world thinks I am, instead of who the Lord SAYS I am.
he says you're cute. So do I :)
and perfectly pleasing
P.S. Tents are portable. Able to move if so led by their master.
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